FIGHT CLUB Director David Fincher Slates JOKER As "A Betrayal Of The Mentally Ill"

Fight Club and Mank director David Fincher has shared his thoughts on 2019's Joker, and his take on the $1 billion grossing DC Comics adaptation has generated a lot of controversy online. Check it out...

By JoshWilding - Nov 15, 2020 06:11 AM EST

Filed Under: Joker

Filmmaker David Fincher is outspoken at the best of times, and as he looks to make the move to Netflix (starting with the upcoming Mank), the director has opened up about the struggles of making movies in the current Hollywood landscape. Predictably, comic book adaptations came up, including last year's R-Rated box office hit, Joker.

"Nobody would have thought they had a shot at a giant hit with Joker had The Dark Knight not been as massive as it was," Fincher recently told The Telegraph (via EW). "I don’t think anyone would have looked at that material and thought, 'Yeah, let’s take Travis Bickle and Rupert Pupkin and conflate them, then trap him in a betrayal of the mentally ill."

Some have defended Fincher online, arguing that the "betrayal" he mentions is a reference to Joker's plot. However, the prevailing opinion is that he views the movie itself in that light.

Whatever the case may be, the filmmaker has come under fire since this interview was released, and later compared Joker's reception to 1999's Fight Club. "The general view afterward among the studio types was, 'Our careers are over.' The fact we got that film made in 1999 is still, to my mind, a miracle," Fincher noted.

Joker received mostly positive reviews and was a major hit, grossing over $1 billion despite its R-Rating. There's a chance a sequel could happen, but Warner Bros. has yet to confirm those rumours.

What's your take on Fincher's comments here?

Click on the "Next" button below to take a look
at some awesome Easter Eggs from Joker!

Zorro The Gay Blade

One of the most direct references to the comic books in Joker comes when we see Thomas and Martha Wayne leading Bruce out of a movie theater where they've been watching Zorro the Gay Blade.

That was obviously the movie the Waynes watched in the comics before they were gunned down, but rather than Bruce dragging them out because he's scared, it seems they're just trying to escape the unrest on the streets of Gotham. It's worth noting that this movie was released in 1981, which confirms that Joker is also set during that year.

"Super Rats"

Early on in the movie, we see a news report mentioning that Gotham City has been invaded by "super rats." Batman has never faced a gigantic rat in the comics, but there is a villain called Ratcatcher.

His real name is Otis Flannegan and he uses his a preternatural ability to train rodents to commit crimes. There's nothing to indicate that's what's happening here, of course, but it's possible it's a nod to the villain!

Justin Theroux's Unexpected Cameos

Justin Theroux has seemingly become the master of noteworthy cameos in big franchises, because after his brief appearance in Star Wars: The Last Jedi, he shows up in Joker as well.

We see him when Arthur is playing that tape of Murray Franklin welcoming a guest named Ethan Chase on the show to promote something called American Playboy. It's hard to tell, but that is indeed Theroux who makes this small, but still really fun little cameo in the DC Comics movie.

The Franklin Murray Show

As has already been noted online, the font used for "Live With Murray Franklin" is the same we saw in the Batman: The Animated Series titles. It's not the only nod on this show, though.

Arthur's dressing room is #404. That was the first chapter in Frank Miller and David Mazzucchelli's iconic Batman: Year One, a story that doesn't necessarily inspire what we see in Joker, but definitely has the same tone. The 1980s setting is also the same and this could be where Todd Phillips looked for inspiration for his take on Gotham City.

A Obscure DC Comics Villain

Look closely and you'll notice that Dr. Benjamin Stoner is responsible for Penny Fleck's diagnosis. Well, in the comics, a Dr. Stone was also part of Arkham Asylum during the 1980s and he later went on to become a rather obscure Doctor Fate villain!

There's another possible Easter Egg with Detective Burke, one of the cops pursuing Arthur. We don't learn his first name, but there was a Tommy Burke who was a detective in the pages of Detective Comics and Gotham Central. However, he doesn't seem to have much in common with this version.

Bryan Callen's Cameo

If you've got sharp ears, you might notice that one of Arthur's co-workers is played by Bryan Callen, the comedian and actor who played Eddie in Todd Phillips' Hangover movies.

He said on a podcast a while back that he had been cast as an ageing stripper in Joker, so chances are he was meant to have a larger part which got cut down either for timing issues, or because he revealed more than Warner Bros. wanted him to! With any luck, he'll make it into the deleted scenes.

Pogo's Comedy Club

Arthur performs his admittedly terrible stand up set in Pogo's Comedy Club, and there's probably a good reason it's named that. It's not because it's based on an iconic location, however; instead, Pogo the Clown was actually serial killer John Wayne Gacy's "respectable" alias.

This is a dark hint at what's to come for Arthur later in the movie and a very clever little touch.

Charlie Chaplin's Modern Times

When Arthur manages to track down his "father" Thomas Wayne in that theater, the film playing is 1936 comedy Modern Times starring Charlie Chaplin.

This film was actually added to the Library of Congress in the US National Film Registry in 1989 as it was deemed "culturally significant." The movie is a commentary on poor working conditions in the industrial age and there are themes in there which are definitely relevant to Joker and our world.

The Dark Knight Returns

Joker's appearance on Franklin Murray's talk show is very similar to The Dark Knight Returns, as he commits a similarly violent act in that story.

However, another nod comes when Joker plants a kiss on a fellow guest. Dr. Sally has to be a nod to Dr. Ruth Weisenheimer from Frank Miller's seminal tale, so Todd Phillips clearly paid some attention to the source material when crafting this particular scene in the DC Comics adaptation.

"TW"

This is easily missed on a first viewing, but when Arthur is putting on his makeup, he picks up a photo of his mother as a young woman with a message on the back reading, "Love your smile, TW."

He quickly crumples that up and dismisses it, but this could very well be confirmation that Thomas Wayne is Arthur's father. Alternatively, Penny might have written it on there herself!

Wayne Manor

Arthur pays a very tense visit to Wayne Manor where he comes across his "brother" Bruce Wayne. In one of Joker's weirdest nods, the young Bruce slides down a pole in his playground in what feels like a very direct reference to the Bat-Pole which became a staple of the 1960s classic TV series.

Oh, and the Englishman who gets roughed up by Arthur is exactly who you think he is. Actor Douglas Hodge is credited as Alfred Pennyworth at the end of the film despite never being named in it.

A Nod To Batman's Co-Creator

Early on in the movie, Arthur meets with his social worker, Debra Kane. She was actually a character in the Batman novel The Ultimate Evil, but common sense says this is a nod to Batman co-creator Bob Kane.

There's also a possible reference to Bill Finger, as Sophie Dumont works in Gotham Savings Bank on 20 William Street. That might be something of a stretch, though, especially as Finger is so often overlooked in movies.

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125 Comments

1 2 3 4

TheManWithoutFear - 11/15/2020, 6:23 AM

I haven't seen Joker. Just wanted to be first. First!

GhostDog - 11/15/2020, 6:24 AM

Fincher when the Joker stans pull up

tmp3 - 11/15/2020, 6:43 AM

@BlackBeltJones - Man, Pitt’s had so many iconic characters at this point. Durden, Aldo Raine, Cliff Booth, he’s like the king of morally duplicitous dudes you can’t help but fall in love with

Kumkani - 11/15/2020, 7:29 AM

@BlackBeltJones - That Bruce Lee stance will never not make me laugh.

Dredd97 - 11/15/2020, 7:34 AM

@tmp3 - the dude's a character actor in a leading man's body

Se4M4NSt4ine - 11/15/2020, 6:28 AM

I love Fincher, he’s one of my favourite directors. But he comes across as kinda snobby here?

He’s literally the Daddy of taking controversial topics, and mixing them with a fantasy like take on mental health? Just can’t understand why he’s picking apart a film that’s trying to (unintentionally) replicate some of his style.

GhostDog - 11/15/2020, 6:30 AM

@Se4M4NSt4ine - he could find it unflattering that it’s unintentionally taking some of his style if he finds the movie to be doing an inadequate job with its take on mental health.

Fincher explores mental health very well in his films.

Se4M4NSt4ine - 11/15/2020, 6:38 AM

@BlackBeltJones -

I never said he never.

But he’s also been criticised for his work, and he should know better than anyone else it’s based on the stylistic choice the director chooses to express in the film.

And the Joker does really well on perceiving certain mental health issues that aren’t as culturally aware as some.

Regardless, even if he is finding things “inadequate” - then that still has strong connotations of snobbery. Just think it’s a little rich coming from a talented director who’s career was built on controversial and unorthodox filmmaking.

Se4M4NSt4ine - 11/15/2020, 6:46 AM

@HeyHey - and that’s where it comes off as snobbery? He’s openly expressed his own opinions on other directors critiquing his own films?

I get you’re probably a massive fan of him, I am too. But at least have the complete unbiased approach to realise what he’s saying is a little off for what he’s said and went through in the past with his own film making experiences.

Makiveli21 - 11/15/2020, 6:29 AM

I read this exact same article on yahoo news 3 days ago. Wilding is such a hack.

Darkknight2149 - 11/15/2020, 6:31 AM

David Fincher should direct a Batman movie.

JustALurker - 11/15/2020, 6:58 AM

@Darkknight2149 - the batman seems to be mimicking major plot threads from Se7en.

Repian - 11/15/2020, 6:59 AM

@Darkknight2149 - David Fincher and the GCPD is the perfect combination for a Joker style movie.

TheMapleSyrup - 11/15/2020, 6:31 AM

I agree with him. But I also didn't like joker, so it's not surprising

JustALurker - 11/15/2020, 7:00 AM

@TheMapleSyrup - joker didn't give us the villain we loved to hate, it just gave us a mentally ill victim. Thats the reason I didn't like it.

TheMapleSyrup - 11/15/2020, 7:08 AM

@JustALurker - I agree 100%

JohnPain - 11/15/2020, 6:33 AM

He's right. Joker is a manipulative exploitation film.

TheUnworthyThor - 11/15/2020, 6:38 AM

tmp3 - 11/15/2020, 6:39 AM

Are people gonna start shitting on him en masse now because he doesn’t like a popular movie? Or have we learned from last year how profoundly dumb it is to waste energy getting mad at directors for having different opinions?
Anyways, The Social Network might be the best film of the century so far

Reeds2Much - 11/15/2020, 6:57 AM

@tmp3 - Are people gonna start shitting on him en masse now

Maybe for how late he is in figuring out, for the most part, that Joker was a thinly veiled love letter to Scorsese that used capeshit to get it's foot in the door.

1 2 3 4

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FIGHT CLUB Director David Fincher Slates JOKER As "A Betrayal Of The Mentally Ill"

Fight Club and Mank director David Fincher has shared his thoughts on 2019's Joker, and his take on the $1 billion grossing DC Comics adaptation has generated a lot of controversy online. Check it out...

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