DAREDEVIL Stars Reveal BORN AGAIN Had No Connections To Netflix Series Before Creative Overhaul
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DAREDEVIL Stars Reveal BORN AGAIN Had No Connections To Netflix Series Before Creative Overhaul

X-MEN Franchise Producer And DARK PHOENIX Director Simon Kinberg Boards Upcoming STAR TREK Prequel Movie
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X-MEN Franchise Producer And DARK PHOENIX Director Simon Kinberg Boards Upcoming STAR TREK Prequel Movie

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GhostDog
GhostDog - 1/17/2024, 2:50 PM
We knew this article was coming...
EZBeast
EZBeast - 1/17/2024, 2:55 PM
@GhostDog - shall we start a drinking game for every Josh themed article he posts?
GhostDog
GhostDog - 1/17/2024, 3:38 PM
@EZBeast - alcohol poisoning right away
mountainman
mountainman - 1/17/2024, 2:54 PM
Not cannon. The hammer that young Fisk killed his dad with was obviously a different hammer in Echo than in Daredevil.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 1/17/2024, 3:09 PM
@mountainman - And Daredevil didn't start wearing red until after She-Hulk. And Vanessa is played by a half-Chinese woman instead of a Jewish woman.

And so many other reasons.
mountainman
mountainman - 1/17/2024, 3:17 PM
@ObserverIO - I really don’t see why the Netflix shows couldn’t have been a different universe but the MCU reality for these heroes was mostly the same. With infinite universes, you would think many of them would have a lot of similarities.

Same with the X-Men. Keep what you want from Fox Universe or 92 animated, change what you want, and multiverse explains it all.
IronSpider101
IronSpider101 - 1/17/2024, 4:36 PM
@mountainman - Those all sound pretty negligible though, don't they? Do we really need multiverse explanations to explain away every inconsistency? I feel at some level that's just part of art/entertainment. We can accept that Mark Ruffalo and Ed Norton are the same character, that Terrence Howard and Don Cheadle are the same character. I think it starts to kill these movies when we hold on to the specifics a little too much.
Origame
Origame - 1/17/2024, 4:42 PM
@mountainman - that bugged me so much. Wtf is up with that hammer? It makes no sense for them to hype up the memories of the series by including the hammer if they're just gonna f@#$ it up with clearly the wrong hammer.

Plus, it doesn't make sense for him to keep the hammer. His mother went out of her way to dispose of the body and clear the area of evidence. Why would she keep the murder weapon to give to Wilson? Especially since she left him the cuff links to remember his father. So is Wilson just very easily reminded of the situation that any hammer works? That's dumb af.
Origame
Origame - 1/17/2024, 4:47 PM
@IronSpider101 - yeah, but there are reasons outside Disney's control for why Terence Howard and Edward Norton aren't in the roles anymore. I'm pretty sure they can just get the correct hammer.

Ffs, the original hammer was a standard claw hammer. Not a ball peen hammer. Even if they didn't watch the series and know the hammer he used, just getting the first kind of hammer you can think of will get you a hammer that's more like the original than what they went with. I genuinely believe they went out of their way to get the wrong hammer just to be different.
mountainman
mountainman - 1/17/2024, 5:43 PM
@IronSpider101 - Oh I don’t give a f*** about minor continuity things I was just messing around. I can ignore little things IF the projects are good.
EnergyVamp
EnergyVamp - 1/17/2024, 7:51 PM
@ObserverIO - Did they recast Vanessa? WTF
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 1/18/2024, 3:59 AM
@EnergyVamp - Sandrine Holt (half-chinese) was reportedly cast as Vanessa in Daredevil: Born Again. It was never 100% confirmed and maybe they'll change it in an attempt to fit continuity now. But there'll still be a million other reasons why it doesn't fit.
RolandD
RolandD - 2/4/2024, 10:46 AM
@EnergyVamp - I believe it was reported that Aylet Zurer wasn’t going to be available.
EZBeast
EZBeast - 1/17/2024, 2:56 PM
Can't it just be cannon in it's own universe? I know multiverse bullshit is getting old but come on these characters and stories clearly fit better outside rhe core mcu...
EskimoJ
EskimoJ - 1/17/2024, 3:05 PM
@EZBeast - It's canon, deal with it.

Besides, its quality isn't higher or lower because it's been confirmed canon.

Plus, if people are looking for the MCU to expand its type of content...
EZBeast
EZBeast - 1/17/2024, 7:39 PM
@EskimoJ - doesn't change the facts that it is a poor decision. Marvel cannot reliably bring good content on their own 2 feet anymore so bringing something that did well that is loosely connected to their stuff reeks just to vandalize more characters yet again proves how poor of a company they have fallen to.
sammac13
sammac13 - 1/17/2024, 2:58 PM
They should ignore/ retcon certain events like kingpins imprisonment
ShimmyShimmyYA
ShimmyShimmyYA - 1/17/2024, 4:23 PM
@sammac13 - welp now their hamstringing themselves to it to avoid complaining rather than fleshing it out fresh themselves
krayzeman
krayzeman - 1/17/2024, 5:15 PM
@ShimmyShimmyYA - totally agree. you already established the multiverse so let that universe remain then take what you need to retro it into the main 616 universe. Just to appease fans? What about everything that happened in Agents of Shield? is that now canon too? how do you explain what happen in that show with the events with the in the Netflix shows?
ShimmyShimmyYA
ShimmyShimmyYA - 1/17/2024, 5:26 PM
@krayzeman - so much of that shit contradicts the mcu , especially AoS
Apophis71
Apophis71 - 1/17/2024, 6:47 PM
@ShimmyShimmyYA - Nothing in the first five seasons of AoS contradicts the films, not even the book cos nothing to prevent them saying there was more than one called the Darkhold when all books in all timelines called that are simply copies of the original text anyway.

Only issues after that is no mention of the blip and reforming SHIELD but by that point had been in timeloops then used a device to traverse from one timeline to another anyway so easy to workaround in a multiverse arc.
ShimmyShimmyYA
ShimmyShimmyYA - 1/17/2024, 7:48 PM
@Apophis71 - multiverse didn’t exist though until Loki season 1, it was still sacred timeline and everything else was pruned besides the alt cap timeline based on endgame
Apophis71
Apophis71 - 1/18/2024, 3:20 AM
@ShimmyShimmyYA - Yes is did, otherwise No Way Home and MoM wouldn't exist either and Endgame wouldn't work at all. Sure they pruned branches to protect the SACRED timeline in most cases but did not interfere at all in the Avengers creating them and Thanos coming across from one of them during Endgame. Even if there was only one Timeline (which there wasn't as the entire reason HWR created the TVA was due to all of his Variants and the resulting multiverse war) doesn't negate any other timelines as once they allowed for the existance if the multiverse in season 2 that becomes true for past, present or future anyway.
Apophis71
Apophis71 - 1/18/2024, 5:01 AM
@ShimmyShimmyYA - To be clear, if the multiverse did not exist before Loki's show

1.) Non of the comics would exist, or the animations thus no Xmen 97' or What if...? episodes, or MoM
2.) Non of the Fox Xmen films would exist thus the end credit in the Marvels couldn't exist and neither could the Deadpool films (inc DP3)
3.) Non of the prior Sony Spider-man films would exist so no Spider-man No Way home
4.) No Kang Variants would have existed thus there would never have been a prior multiverse War resulting in the creation of the TVA thus no Loki series at all.

The multiverse existing was covered in multiple films prior to Loki's series such as Thor Dark World, Spider-man Far from home and Endgame.

5.) If an exception was made for the actions of the Avengers in Endgame and the Cap timeline then other exceptions can have also exist and after jumping timeline could have ended up on that Cap timeline and be the ones to use their device to get old man Cap back to the sacred timeline.
6.) The TVA exists outside of time and Loki was plucked from 2012 so if there was a point where the multiverse didn't exist what year(s) would that be from start to end from a movie POV? Once season two ended it is all moot (and kinda always was as didn't prevent branch timelines being created even if they pruned most of them) as that effects ALL parts of the timeline not just the future, the past too thus always was a multiverse from prime timeline perspective.

In short, if Loki was an obstacle for AoS characters returning then it would would be one for multiple Infinity Arc films, all the Fox films, all the Deadpool films, all the multiverse films, all the non-MCU Sony films, all of What if...? etc etc however regardless does not negate the first five seasons of AoS not contradicting the films at all, would only impact to any significant degree the last season and of that two seasons the only issues are no mention of the blip and reformation of SHIELD which is small potatoes that is easy to work around in a multiverse arc. All they would need to do for instance is increase the time jump between season five and six in a similar way to how they reduced it for Homecoming after it initialy having a 2yr time jump or that they ended up on a branch timeline somewhere after season four which they have a device to jump across from or could have been merged back into the main timeline at some point due to the actions of Loki after the end of his second season.

Although they are considering the Netflix shows canon, they will be at best considered loose canon and use the existance of the multiverse to ignore/retcon anything they want from them anyway so again all kind of moot.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 1/17/2024, 3:13 PM
5. What Did Karen Page Do Next?

If this were a true adaptation of Born Again, she started doing porn and smack next. Then she sold Daredevil's identity to the Kingpin. For smack and crack.

And the fact that he doesn't wear his costume in the show wouldn't be a problem since that was one of the key motifs of the book that it was praised for; Showing that Daredevil is more than just a costume.
JFerguson
JFerguson - 1/17/2024, 3:15 PM
Luke cage is an undercover criminal boss and Colleen Wing is the iron fist.

I say go with it. More interesting than following comics to a T.
bobevanz
bobevanz - 1/17/2024, 3:36 PM
I just have one: why?
dracula
dracula - 1/17/2024, 3:39 PM
Betting Matt was dusted. Fisk wasnt.

How else could he have regained power
CerealKiller1
CerealKiller1 - 1/17/2024, 4:11 PM
@dracula - We know for a fact that Matt wasn’t dusted due to his appearance in Echo, which took place during the five years
JFerguson
JFerguson - 1/17/2024, 4:25 PM
@dracula - echo disproves this. DD was around.

My thoughts are that Vanessa, Foggy, and Karen all got dusted. Voiding their truce
Apophis71
Apophis71 - 1/17/2024, 4:32 PM
@CerealKiller1 - This is true, more likely Vanessa, Karen and Foggy got blipped as those three are the key figures related to the deal that resulted in Kingpin return to captivity (sans Matt being blipped as we know him and Fisk were not). In regard to the latter two can be used as a way why they don't feature as much in the early episodes (ie in their absence Matt went to work for another firm).

I'd say however there are ample ways in the timeframe Kingpin could regain power during the blip and/or end up free such as if key evidence destroyed and witnesses snapped being acquitted on appeal or a politician in his pocket giving him a full pardon. I could imagine for a variety of reasons there could have been a lot of pardons handed out during the blip and the people having bigger things on their minds for it to have the normal sort of backlash you would normaly expect.
dracula
dracula - 1/17/2024, 5:02 PM
@JFerguson - oh havent watched echo yet
TheLobster
TheLobster - 1/17/2024, 4:10 PM
Considering Marvel can’t even answer how Kingpin survived a gunshot to the [frick]ing eye in their OWN series? Doubtful they will even put the effort into answering half of these questions lol
cubrn
cubrn - 1/17/2024, 8:39 PM
@TheLobster - He survived a gunshot wound to the eye in the comics too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
TheLobster
TheLobster - 1/18/2024, 12:03 AM
@cubrn - still pretty dumb. Marvel doesn’t adapt comics faithfully but they adapt that? Come onnnnnn lol
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 1/18/2024, 4:08 AM
@TheLobster - point blank too.
ShimmyShimmyYA
ShimmyShimmyYA - 1/17/2024, 4:24 PM
I really wish they stuck to their guns and did their own thing - Netflix fans don’t even like that stuff past season 3 of DD , half of Jessica jones maybe half of Luke cage and none of the defenders or IF
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